I just wondered since you are a philosophy major and all. Let’s see, I believe it is Rand is to Aristotle as Kant is to Plato. I tend to chuckle at your “Conservative” nomenclature. I will paraphrase some of Rand. You see, Conservatives want to regulate and control people’s lives just like liberals do. Rand called Conservatives mystics of the mind. Liberals are calledcmystics of the muscle. They both want to regulate and control through the government what they believe is important. Conservatives are concerned for the hereafter. Liberals are concerened for the here and now. Hence, Conservatives wish to regulate behaviour (for instance banning prostitution) while liberals wish to control your pocketbook and seize all of your money. The liberals are concerned for now and wish to make a utopia on earth. The Conservatives wish to make a utopia for the mind. Get it?? Now, authoritarians would wish to control both areas, mind (conservatives) and muscle (liberals), while libertarians would wish to control neither. Now many libertarians claim Rand and her philosophy, which involves neither being a mystic of the mind nor mystic of the muscle, but she never did call herself that. In fact, I believe in one essay she might’ve referred to some libertarians as downright anarchists. Anyway, before attaching yourself to the conservative label, just remember you are hitching your wagon to a star that is just as controlling and desirous as liberals. In summation, conservatives want my mind. Liberals want my money. The best quote I can think of in rebuttal to the Conservatives is from Jefferson. He said, “I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility to tyranny over the minds of men.” I think that’s close. This is all from memory. As for liberals, was it Churchill that said “Taxing yourself into prosperity is like standing inside of a bucket and trying to pull yourself out of it”?? Anyway, congratulations on your pending graduation. And you and your husband make it down to the pizza pub sometime on Friday, ok??

Nice job, Gary! I appreciate the lack of insults…these are the kinds of comments I like from you (and everyone else, for that matter.) I knew that you were a bright guy, I just couldn’t get through the angry rhetoric. Anywho, keep this up…
Sadly, the professors in the Philosophy Dept. at ETSU loathe Ayn Rand and don’t even consider her a philosopher. I’ve have heard her name dragged through the mud in that department time and again, so the only way that I ever came into contact with her was through that fine woman who recommended her to me. So much for an unbiased education, eh?
I agree that there are many conservatives who desire to “control the mind,” and to that I am strongly opposed. The most accurate label for me would be (have I mentioned this before?) “Conservative-Libertarian.” I’m not comfortable with a government that essentially only enforces contracts, but I’m also not comfortable with the more extensive government many conservatives advocate. I fear the government, I fear their power, but I also fear a country in which they are virtually impotent. There may come a time when the Republicans have so disappointed me that I may completely abandon them, but, for now, there are a few who don’t want that extensive power – these are the ones I will support.
On another note, I hesitate to rely on Jefferson as a gauge for the intentions of our founding fathers. I’m about to read his biography (along with a biography of Hamilton, and a book comparing their political ideals – it’s that post-graduation reading list again!), so I’ll most likely have more to say about him after more research. This is, of course, not to say that Jefferson was wrong simply based on the fact that he was the only major player with his views; my point is that, to use him as an example of the feelings of all our founding fathers would be a mistake (that’s not to say you have done this here, but elsewhere in our discussions.) Again, I may have more to say about this after I do some more reading…
And we’ll see you at the Pizza Pub sometime this summer! I love a healthy debate…
–Jama

Have you ever read Ayn Rand???

Gary

She is actually on my post-graduation reading list (13 days and counting!). Someone heard me ranting a while back, said that I would probably like her, and gave me a copy of “Atlas Shrugged”…Why do you ask?
–Jama

You are correct about the logical fallacy. I didn’t mean to infer that you were for “Big” Government. But, I’ve heard it said that “Birds of the same feather flock together”. Would that statement be a hasty generalization?? Sometimes haste is good.

Gary

Why, yes, that would be the “hasty generalization” fallacy. For sometimes, there are those out there that want to change those birds…
-Jama

I just happend to think the Republicans are more for big government than Democrats……..

I don’t like Democrats either……………..
Politically of course…………

Nothing personal…………….
Gary

I would agree that there are some Republicans who support big government – more than Democrats? I’m not so sure. But there is no doubt that there are Republicans who are in favor of big government. However, that does not mean that all Republicans are in favor of big government (and to assume so would be the logical fallacy, “hasty generalization.”)
–Jama

Are you a member of ETSU College Republicans??

Gary

Yes, for 18 more days. Why do you ask?
-Jama

As for Republicans being for small government. Can you give me some examples?????????? According to the CATO institute, domestic spending under Bush has grown at double the rate than it did under Clinton, and this is for domestic programs, not war related expenditures. Don’t believe me?? Google Congressman Ron Paul from Texas and see some of his info. He’s the only Republican that I can think of that is for smaller government like you believe. Other than that, the Republicans have turned into Santa Claus. Promising all the government that the Democrats do, but you’ll have to actually pay less for it by cutting your taxes. Republican Santa Claus just gets to go bankrupt quicker than the Democrat Santa Claus………………………

The Republican ideal is small government…George Bush is not a conservative Republican. George Bush is nothing more than the “social coservative” I mentioned earlier. I know for a fact that spending has increased under Bush, and that is why I don’t support him or candidates like him. My goal is to return the party to what it once was by supporting candidates that still support small government. Typically, that means supporting Constitution Party candidates, although there are the occassional Republican candidates who live up to that standard. I don’t support the candidates who are opposed this ideal (whether that be in their words, like the Democrats, or in their deeds, like many Republicans.) Again, you’re building this straw man, “Jama is a die-hard Republicn” (fallacious) argument, and it just doesn’t work.
–Jama

You afraid that Jama might actually learn something rather than being given the Republican spin that you are so good at? As for being drunken swine, I can’t recall anyone ever leaving our meeting drunk, and we certainly are not swine. And as it being a renewed club, it never did die. We’ve been meeting there for the better of five years. Sometimes there’s just Fred, his wife and I present. Other times, we’ve had as many as eight to ten people show up. Different people every week. It’s probably more than listens to WPWT in the morning, if you want to be nasty about it. And Jama, as for being angry, aren’t you angry???????? Well, I don’t guess we are not so much angry, and I’m sort of speaking for Fred too, as we just recognize that the Titanic has a fatal blow struck to her hull, and we aren’t the ones to be out on the poop deck playing everyone a song to calm everybody down. We are screaming to get to the lifeboats. Angry?? Sort of. More sort of like self-preservation than anything else…………………………………

Just thought I would drop you a note…encourage to simply not go around the renewed club. Nothing more than casting your pearls before eventually drunken swine.

I would spend your time getting ready for the up and coming election season.

That’s just me…Have Fun!

I really appreciate your stand on the tax system, but with all due respect, you are totally clueless about it. I would like to take this opportunity to invite you and your husband to the Italian Pizza Pub on Walnut St. in Johnson City across from ETSU. We meet every Friday at 5 pm. There, the Resurrected Benjamin Franklin’s “Junto” Club meets and discusses various political and religious subjects. But be forewarned, this isn’s a sycophantic Republican?Democratic love society. We hate almost everyone in politics. We’re not anarchists, but we find few in politics that are for freedom and constitutional government. So, you’re invited along with your husband anytime to come down and debate your silly Republican loving political agenda. Sincerely, Gary and Pessimist Fred from Carter County

I love that you assume that I’m a die-hard Republican. I’m actually affiliated with the Constitution Party – I merely support Republican candidates who align with my ultra-conservative views (and by “Conservative,” I don’t mean the standard “religious-right social conservatism” that is now assumed when that word is used…I mean small, unobtrusive government who will stay out of my business. I would consider myself an almost-libertarian.) My husband works in Bristol until 5:00, and I’m currently covered up with schoolwork, but since you meet every Friday, I’ll see if I can’t stop by sometime during May (after graduation…). How many people do you have in your group? And what would you consider yourselves, politically? You strike me as an angry sort of Libertarian…correct me if I’m wrong.
–Jama

I share your excitement. However, the root of the problem is the debasement of the currency with our current fiat money system. We need to restore constitutional money. (Gold and silver coin). And I’m not too sure about the constitutionality of giving the feds the power to tax at the retail level. I’m sure if given that power they’ll take it. They sure ignore the constitutionality of our federal reserve system. And look, all fiat money systems (where money is printed out of thin air), require income taxes to survive. The deep, dark, dirty secret is that the remittance of income taxes to the federal government has nothing to do with funding said government. Think about it, they can print money out of thin air. It’s just a tool to control the money supply. When the rubber hits the road, the fair tax proposal will fail because the money masters that ultimately control congress will tell the congress not to vote for it, no matter what you or I think. Why?? The control for remitting the funny money back to the Congress will pass from those in charge (income tax) to you or I (fair tax)……. So, the only reason I would support the fair tax is that it will hasten the collapse of the fiat money system. That’s it. You should be weary about giving the feds the power to tax at the retail level…. Ok…. That’s enough from me……….

I agree that the income tax is about power rather than generating revenue. But – and maybe it’s because I’m still young and starry-eyed – I don’t share your pessimism about the FairTax being passed. There are still honorable people and, although much fewer and farther between, there are still honorable people in government – people who won’t be swayed by lobbyists. If we can cause enough of a stink, and elect the right people, I do believe we can make a difference.
As for the fiat money system, I share your concern. I too don’t believe that the federal government should have such power over our money supply. I, however, find federal control over my income scarier than a federal ability to tax at the retail level. The point here is choice…I don’t have to pay taxes unless I choose to go out and make purchases. I’m entirely comfortable living in such a way that I don’t go out and buy lots of new things, and thus, not paying taxes. I don’t have that choice with the income tax.
Funny, I think you and I agree more than you would like to admit.
–Jama